Alabama’s 12 National Championships Debunked
A friend of mine recently e-mailed me this article about Alabama’s so called 12 national championships. Anybody that grows up in Alabama hears this load of bullshit about 12 national championships all the time. It’s even more nauseating when you are an Auburn fan. If anyone happens to know who the author of this is please let me know so I can give credit to them.
12 National Championships? … The Real Story
I just wanted to clear up a few misconceptions about Alabama’s claim to 12 national championships based on fact rather than bias. Credit is given where credit is due.
To clear up confusion, the word retroactive means they went back in time to award the championship.
‘TWELVE’ national championships is fraudulent, nothing but pure bunk ginned up by the SID Department. Here’s a rundown:
1925 National Championship- Alabama claims they share this one with Dartmouth. Who awarded the NC? Houlgate and Helms. Houlgate started his system in 1927. So Bama won their 1925 NC using a formula that didn’t exist until 1927? Helms Athletic Foundation started in 1941. Another incredible retroactive NC.
The Associated Press Poll has been active since 1936. The AP took their final poll prior to bowl games from 1936 - 1964 and in 1966 and 1967. They took their final poll after the bowl games in 1965 and from 1968 - Current.
1926 National Championship- Alabama claims they share this one with 3 other teams with equal or better records! Once again it is the Helms Athletic Foundation in 1941 that awards it!
1930 National Championship- The Davis poll says that Bama tied Notre Dame for NC this year. This was the only one to award it to Bama. Notre Dame was named NC in 6 polls! Parke Davis is another retroactive system! He (an individual, not an organization) did his in 1933!
1934 National Championship- Alabama says they share this with two other teams. The awarders are Dunkel, Williamson, and Football Thesaurus. Dunkel was an individual who came up with his own system. Williamson was a geologist who came up with his own system. Football Thesaurus first appeared in 1946!
1941 National Championship- This is a complete joke. The AP ranked Alabama 20th in the nation with 14 teams with better records in the top 20. Once again it is the Football Thesaurus that retroactively awards it. Alabama finished 3rd in the SEC that year. Mississippi State won the SEC title..yet Bama claims a National title!
1961 National Championship- Finally a legitimate NC. .
1964 National Championship- While the AP did award the NC to Bama (10-1-0), Arkansas had the better record, 11-0. Alabama played Texas in their bowl and LOST. The AP final poll was before the bowl.
1965 National Championship- The AP gave this to Bama. That year there were three teams with better records than Bama. Bama 9-1-1, Michigan St 10-1-0, Arkansas 10-1-0, Nebraska 10-1-0.
1973 National Championship- AP puts Bama 4th after their bowl game loss. Bama claims a NC from the UPI poll that was taken before they met Notre Dame in the bowl game and lost. There were 3 teams with better records than Bama that year. The embarrassment of naming Alabama number one caused the UPI to name champions after bowl games. Yet Bammer has no shame in claiming it of course.
1978 National Championship- AP gives this to Alabama(11-1-0) even though USC (12-1-0) had the better record Guess who Alabama lost to that year? USC!!!!!!!!!. UPI gave the NC to USC.
1979 National Championship- Their second legitimate NC. Their first Unanimous NC.
1992 National Championship- Their third legitimate NC. Their second Unanimous NC.
You can see why people ridicule Bama fans when they talk about 12 NCs. The early ones were awarded by individuals years after the games were played. These weren’t consensus polls but NCs awarded by people that had their own formula for determining champions. Some NCs were given before bowl games that Bama lost. Using Alabama logic, Auburn could claim four national championships. But when Bammers brag they like to say they have twelve and Auburn has one. How silly. The NCAA recognizes 6 NCs for Bama and there are only two NCs that Bama has unanimously. You can’t find an Auburn site claiming four national championships but there are plenty Bama sites claiming twelve.
Debunking the Alabama National Championship myths.
Bama…legends in their own minds!
References:
http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_football_past_champs.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I-A_national_football_championship
http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?page=communityfbip
January 13, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Yeah I live in Alabama and here this crap all the time. All I got to say is War Eagle.
March 13, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Why do so many fans of other schools feel the need to “debunk” the University of Alabama football heritage? What about 1966 when Notre Dame won the NC with a 9-0-1 record but Bama had an 11-0? You see, these arguments can be made against everyone else too. Just accept that Alabama is awesome and stop crying.
March 14, 2008 at 12:37 am
Maybe because people are tired of listening to Bama fans’ bullshit? Anytime you discuss college football with a Bama fan the words “Bear Bryant” or “twelve national championships” are guaranteed to spew from their mouth. The statements presented in this article are facts, like it or not. I will agree with you on the ‘66 season though. Alabama deserved a shot at the title just like Auburn did in ‘04. I’m all about giving credit where credit is due. But going back and claiming championships willy-nilly? That’s some repugnant shit.
April 14, 2008 at 10:08 am
What complete Auburn propaganda. And this from a school that tried to claim the Auburn-fan created, e-harmony.com People’s National Championship hand-stamp.
We have two of the claimed 12 that aren’t legit, with others we don’t claim which we probably could.
TO DEFEND:
1st, the oldies:
1925: 11-0, Rose Bowl Champions. Enough said.
1926
&
1930
&
1934
All UNDEFEATED!
So, yea, they won the NC, no matter what outdated system was used. They were crowned AT THE TIME. If you disagree with a team winning, that’s your opinion. But you can’t say an UNDEFEATED team didn’t deserve a NC.
Back to the case.
1941: Suspect. And most ‘Bama fans will admit it. They had 2 losses. But they were awarded it after a big bowl win over Texas A&M in the Cotton, a major, major bowl back then. I don’t think it stands up. Then again, let’s see what the jury says on LSU’s current title in 60 years.
1961: LEGIT.
1964: LEGIT. Things were different then. The NC was given BEFORE the bowls, viewed more as a spectacle. ‘BAMA was awarded it. And even after a last-second loss to Texas, we still deserved it. You can’t ever know what would have changed had we needed to win the bowl to win the NC. It could have changed mentality, focus, etc. Bottom line: when they awarded the NC, we were unbeaten. That was the system then.
1965: LEGIT. We were 9-1-1. We beat undefeated NU by double-digits in the Orange. This is just as legit as USC’s ‘03 title.
1973: 11-1. Suspect. (addressed later)
1978: LEGIT. We were 11-1. We lost early. USC lost late. Don’t lose late. They may have beaten us, but the AP deemed that, at the end, of the year, we were the better team. Probably because we had one of the greatest defenses ever and beat #1 Penn State in the Sugar Bowl with arguably the greatest play in college football history- the “Goal Line Stand.”
1979: LEGIT.
1992: LEGIT.
——
So, two are suspect.
In ‘73, the modern bowl system was in place, yet UPI gave us the NC before our 24-23 loss to ND in the 1-2 Title game.
And in ‘41, a 2-loss Bama team won it after a big win over TA&M in the Cotton. Not legit.
None of the others can be legitimately argued against. The AP says we have 7, so at the VERY LEAST those are set in stone.
And EVERY historian in America will tell you 11-0 ‘66 BAMA got hosed. And the 11-1 ‘75 and ‘77 teams also had a gripe. In ‘77, 11-1 SEC Champion Alabama beat OSU 35-6 in the Sugar. Sound familiar?
It all equals out.
We’ve won 12. Some years we got helped, some years we got hosed. That’s college football for you.
But because we’re ALABAMA - arguably the greatest program in college football history - we have 12-17 years where we were awarded National Championships by some organization or another.
And, because we’re ALABAMA, lesser programs - with little to no National Championship credentials - wish to debate on the ins and outs of our Championship legacy.
Doesn’t change a thing. Saban’s working on 13. You can go about your business. Move along.
April 14, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Hello General Patton, thanks for your reply. I am always happy when a Bama fan actually reads this article. Most simply refuse, in fear they will read something that goes against what they have always been taught. Much like a Christian not wanting to read a book on evolution. Which is understandable I guess.
Please bear in mind, I did not write this article. I simply re-posted it. But, I do love debating! So I appreciate you writing what you did.
Let us begin:
“1925: 11-0, Rose Bowl Champions. Enough said.”
I can agree with this one. That’s one.
1926 - Hell I’ll even give ya’ll this one too. That is two.
1930 -
Alabama: Football Research, Parke Davis*
Notre Dame: Billingsley, Boand, Dickinson, Dunkel, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*, Poling
Alabama and ND shared the Park Davis awarded NC, but ND had 8 to 1 on the others. Championship ND.
1934 -
Alabama: Dunkel, Houlgate, Poling, Williamson
Minnesota: Billingsley, Boand, Dickinson, Football Research, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation
FTA:The awarders are Dunkel, Williamson, and Football Thesaurus. Dunkel was an individual who came up with his own system. Williamson was a geologist who came up with his own system. Football Thesaurus first appeared in 1946!
1941 - Pure BS
1961 - Legit. That’s three.
1964 - AP and UPI. They lost their bowl game, but hell let’s count it. That’s four.
1965 - AP champs. Granted they lost their bowl game. And by today’s standards would be in second or third place at the end of the season. But let’s count it, because of technicalities. That’s five.
1973 -
Alabama: Berryman, UPI
Michigan: National Championship Foundation*, Poling*
Notre Dame: AP, FB News, FW, Helms, National Championship Foundation*, NFF
Ohio St.: FACT, National Championship Foundation*, Poling*
Oklahoma: Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, Sagarin
There seems to be many champions claimed by several people this season. Bama lost their bowl game just like in ‘73, but still claim a championship.
FTA:National Championship- AP puts Bama 4th after their bowl game loss. Bama claims a NC from the UPI poll that was taken before they met Notre Dame in the bowl game and lost.
ND won the AP poll, but if Bama fans can live with that, then more power to you. Let’s count it to suppress the tears. That’s six.
1978 - In 1973 I just agreed on a NC for Bama because they won the UPI, but ND won the AP. USC beat Bama in ‘78 and won the UPI. But in ‘78 Bama fans are claiming a NC from the AP now. Which is the more important poll? The AP or UPI? It seems whichever poll Bama wins the NC in is the most important poll for that season.
1979 - Legit. That’s seven.
1992 - Legit. That’s eight.
Now granted I counted some that would be complete trash today because of losing their bowl game. But, I am a reasonable person. I could happily agree on eight if Bama fan’s would. But definitely not twelve. Auburn has been claimed NC’s four times by various polls, (’93, ‘83, ‘57, ‘13) much like Bama. But we count our one “legitimate” NC. Hell, by using Bama logic Princeton could claim 24 NC’s, but do they?
April 23, 2008 at 1:09 pm
In 1925 Bama finished the season 9-0 and were invited to the Rose Bowl. The Rose Bowl Committee didn’t invite just any team. They invited the team that displayed great prowess and skill on the field that year. Bama defeated Washington in the Rose Bowl 20-19 finishing the season with a 10-0 record and a Rose Bowl Championship.
Dartmouth is the other #1 team of record for 1925. They played 8 games and were awarded the #1 vote by the Dickinson poll. Dickinson poll was operated by 1 person, Frank Dickinson an Economics Professor from U. of Illinois. He voted Dartmouth #1 retroactively in 1926 or 1927. Alabama is not the only Pre-1936 era team that was voted #1 RETROACTIVELY by one organization or another. So was 1930 Notre Dame and 1925 Dartmouth and others.
1926: Alabama finishes 9-0-1. Bama tied the other #1 team of record Standford in the Rose Bowl. Alabama and Stanford played to a 7-7 tie. Sounds like a legitimate split National title to me. Whats the problem?
1930: Alabama finishes the season 10-0 and again are Rose Bowl Champions. Notre Dame finishes 10-0. No Rose Bowl. I believe some of those organizations voted ND #1 retroactively.
1934: Alabama finishes the season with a perfect 10-0 season and again are Rose Bowl Champions. Bama blew away Stanford 29-13 in the Rose Bowl.
Minn. finishes the season with an 8-0 record. I believe Bama played a little bit tougher schedule than Minn.
At least Bama backs up it’s pre-1936 era National Title claims with undefeated seasons and Rose Bowl Championships. Bama’s claims are just as credible as anyone else’s.
1941: I won’t go to the mat on this one. Minnasota wins it again with an 8-0 record. 1941 was similar to 2007. Everyone had 1 loss and 2 tie’s, or 2 or 3 losses. I believe FWAA awarded Bama the NT after they saw Bama clobber Texas A&M in the Cotton Bowl.
But, I will agree it is a stretch for Bama to claim this year as a National Championship. Most Bama fans don’t care one way or the other.
1945: Alabama finishes the season with a perfect 10-0 record and win the Rose Bowl. U. of Alabama and Bama fans do not include this year as a National Championship, although some organizations voted Bama #1.
1961: No explanation needed.
1964: Bama finishes the regular season with a perfect 10-0 record. That’s all the AP and UPI cared about. Bowl games were a type of post season exhibiton game to them. That was the AP and UPI’s guidelines, not Alabama’s. Bama didn’t make the rules. Bama didn’t vote themselves #1.
Alabama got the 1964 NT the same way 1950 OU got theirs. The same way 1951 Tenn got theirs. The same way 1953 Maryland got theirs. And the same way 1960 Minn got theirs. Those schools still hold their respective National Titles. They still count them.
1965: #4 Alabama finishes the regular season 8-1-1. They defeated #3 Nebraska in the Orange Bowl. The AP “experimented ” that year and decided to wait until after the Bowl games to vote their National champion. The top 3 teams lost in post season play.
#1 Mich. St. lost the Rose Bowl but were #1 in the UPI poll. Remember that when it comes to 1973.
1966: Bama finishes the regular season 10-0 but end up #3 in the polls. ND and Mich. St. finish #1 and #2 respectively even though they finished with a 9-0-1 record. A 10-0 season is better than a 9-0-1 record isn’t it? Bama won by the AP and UPI’s criteria. But that’s the way it goes. I don’t hold it against ND fans. I realize they didn’t vote themselves #1. ND may have been able to thump Alabama. Will never know. But ND was not more successful on the field that year.
1973: Bama got the UPI the same way Texas got the 1970 UPI and the same way Michigan St. got their 1965 UPI. Those 2 schools still count them to.
1977: Bama finishes the regular season 10-1 and were ranked #3 in the polls. #1 Texas and # 2 Oklahoma loose in post season play. Bama moved up to the #2 spot. #5 Notre Dame clobbered #1 Texas and went all the way from #5 to #1 in both polls. It is the FIRST and ONLY time in AP and UPI history a team ever went from #5 slot to the #1 spot. I can see the AP and UPI’s reasoning. Both teams had 1 loss. But I am tempted to think Bama deserved a share of the title. Bama blew away Big Ten Co-Champs Ohio St in the Sugar Bowl.
1978: Alabama finished the regular season #2 in the AP polls. Bama took on and defeated a Penn St. team that finished the regular season with a perfect 11-0 record and were ranked #1 in the polls. PSU was also had a 15 game winning streak.
I though we devout lovers of CFB wanted the Bowl games to play a significant role and be a important factor in determining final placements in the final polls. Which is more significant, Alabama beating undefeated, #1 PSU in the Sugar or USC beating a 2-0 Alabama in the 3rd week of the opening season?
Which team had the better loss in 1978? Alabama loosing to Co-Champs USC or USC getting kicked by a slightly above average ASU team? Alabama played the harder schedule. Alabama defeated the superior opponent in the Sugar Bowl.
I agree USC’s win over Bama gave USC the right over Alabama to Play Penn St. for the 1978 NT. But it didnot give USC the 1978 NT. Unfortunately for USC they are in the Pac-10 and the Pac 10 has that Rose Bowl alignment. They won’t let anyone come play in their sand box. So, Alabama got a crack at the #1 team. They won and that put Bama over the top for a fair claim to a share of the 1978 NT.
I realize there are regular season games that have “Playoff” consequences. That is, there are regular season games that determine which team gets in that final pool to play for a National Title. But I can’t think of a regular season game that ever won a NT for a team.
And there shouldn’t be. Somewhere along the line a regular game has to be that, - a regular season game, affecting a team only in a regular season poll at the time of play, not 9 games and 3 months later.
USC got the UPI NT for 1978 because they finished the regular season ranked #2 in the UPI polls. USC was #3 in the AP poll.
1979: No explanation needed.
1992: See 1979.
Alabama could claim 17 National Title but don’t.
I’ll take 11. 25,26,30,34,1961,64,65,73,78,79,92.
April 24, 2008 at 12:20 am
After 1950 the AP and the UP/UPI/Coaches poll were viewed as the top voting organizations. They were the premeir voting polls. It was these 2 organizations National Title votes that teams were vying for. Nobody gave a damn what the Helms, NFF, Dunkel, etc.. said or how they voted. Helms (HAF), Dunkel, Berryman, Sagarin and others fell into obscurity by the early 1960’s. College football fans weren’t paying any attention to what those polls said or how they voted their team. It was the AP and UPI polls that were publicsized. Those other polling organizations like Billingsley, NFF, Devold, Dunkel, Berryman, etc. were viewed as minor, insignificant polls. I don’t believe anyone recognized who they vote #1.
I grew up in the 70’s and went to college in the early 80’s. Everyone was only paying attention to the AP Poll and the Coaches Poll. Those were the only 2 recognized and avowed polls.
True, NCF voted Michigan #1 in 1973. I bet there wasn’t a Michigan fan who knew that back then and even less cared. University of Michigan doesn’t recognize it. But many Michigan CFB fans knew who the AP and UPI National champs were for 1973.
Same can be said for 1973 Oklahoma. I bet the large majority of OU fans didnot know that Billingsley, Devold and Dunkel voted OU Sooners #1 in 1973. I bet they really don’t care. They didn’t care back in 1973. I don’t believe the University of Oklahoma recognizes it. It was the AP NT or the UPI NT they wanted their Sooners to win.
I believe Berryman voted Alabama #1 in 1975. The University of Alabama doesn’t recognize or publish it.
Some of those minor polls voted Alabama #1 in 1977. No Bama fan pays any attention to it.
May 8, 2008 at 11:23 am
Take the time to read the NCAA website, they do not crown a champion in D-1 football but leave it to outside organizations to do so. Beat your chests all you want to bammer fans, keep on living in the past with your dreamed up beauty contest trophies. You were great when you could cheat like hell and win with corruption but keep it up and you will be back “staring down the barrel” of the NCAA gun. BammerMatt, so you are one of those “we really got 17 nashnul champeenships” idiots? What is it about bammer fans that makes them have to embellish EVERYTHING they do to get approval? Because everybody else sees through their bullshit and knows they are a has been with no present day success. Dream on you bammer dreamers, you are IRRELEVANT
May 8, 2008 at 3:18 pm
The reason nobody in their right mind would have ever said bama won the ‘45 championship is because Army probably had the greatest team that had ever played football to that time.
That’s the prob with retro championships. I’d guess in a few years you will see bama 1945 NC because now adays folks have no sense of history and figure Army to be just like Army of 2008.
May 10, 2008 at 7:38 pm
PDAU: With all due respect, you need to go back and read my first post a little closer. I said at the end of the post I would accept 11. I don’t believe Alabama should recognize or publish all 17 “possible” National Titles. I pointed out the 17 national titles because Auburn fans and other critics are always claiming that Alabama accepts every national championship awarded them willy-nilly. Auburn fans liked to point out there are possible 4 or 5 national championships they could accept but choose not to recognize. Well, Alabama does the samething.
I often notice that most fans of programs that don’t have a history of winning national championships, or any winning tradition to speak of, try to belittle the accomplishments of more successful programs. I’ve been watching college football for 40 years and I have notice that all the Div. 1A football programs have been playing their jocks off in a desperate competiton to win one of those so-called “Beauty Contests”. It is what every team shoots for. I realize the NCAA doesn’t recognize the National Titles; but it seems to me the AP, UPI/Coaches poll and now the BCS have been by “defacto” your National Championship awards. It’s what every team whats to win. I’ll agree it’s not much of a system, but it’s the only system we’ve got. And so far Alabama has been one of the most successful programs in it.
Alabama is irrelevent? Well, we’ll see if Coach Saban can change that.
June 19, 2008 at 5:22 am
ok well auburn fans alabama fans could easily say you only have half of a national title that you shared with texas and you always say you dont care about our titles but then your writing stuff like this so make up your mind either you do care or you dont pick one!!!!!! and ROLL TIDE
June 27, 2008 at 6:22 am
These posts are fantastic! You guys are beyond crazy…who gives a bleep a/b this crap? Good luck with Coach Satan, he’s a fraud.
July 11, 2008 at 12:22 pm
To put an end to this crap… why would BAMA claim 12 when they could “claim” 17? If youre gonna do 1, why not do 1,000? You stupid Auburn fans would be “beating your chests” if the roles were reverse so get off you high horse about BCS CHEATED 13-0 UNDEFEATED… You act like youre the first team to get screwed by NCAA. Get over it. Georgia got screwed this year too! The one thing we all can agree on is that the SEC gets zero RESPECT from anyone and thats all about to change. Look for one hell of a season from our guys this year!
Roll Tide!